Learn more about Vakaros: Website | Facebook | Instagram
Transcript
Derek
Welcome to the Innovator Interview Series brought to you by SEACOMP, where we help innovators deliver awesome. My name is Derek Jackson and I am meeting today with Jake Keilman as well as Todd Wilson from Vakaros. So let’s go ahead and kick off the discussion just with introductions so our viewers can understand more about who you are. Jake, would you like to start?
Kyle
Sure, thanks Derek. My name is Jake Keilman, co-founder of Vakaros, electrical engineering background, but also a sailor and that’s really what helped me get into the business and also what introduced me to my co-founder Todd.
Todd
I’m Todd Wilson, co-founder of Vakaros. I’m from a software engineering background, and also an avid passionate sailor, and which is how Jake and I met. I lead the engineering efforts for software over at Vakaros.
Derek
Awesome, thanks guys. So let’s talk a little bit about the company, how you’re structured, and how you went from Vakaros just being an idea through to how it’s evolved to the business today.
Jake
It’s been a real journey. Todd and I met sailing together. Really, the company came out of our own interest and needs as sailors to better understand our performance. The boat we were racing together was a high-performance catamaran and we were the only boat of that type in the area we were sailing in. It was really difficult for us to gauge, are we doing well, are we doing poorly, where can we improve, where are other opportunities for us to move faster or improve the way we’re sailing the boat, without another reference point out there. And, as engineers, we sort of knew that if we could measure and see the data live while we are on the water, that would allow us to gauge our performance. And so that was really the core idea behind the company. How do we take all these great sensors and advances in technology that have happened over the past decade or so and turn that into something that you can use while you’re sailing, that gives you that real time feedback and also lets you collect data so you can analyze it when you come back off the water. So it started there, it originally started as something we were going to build just for ourselves, just to help us improve our own sailing and then it pretty quickly got out of control and turned into a company and maybe Todd, you can pick up the story from that point.
Todd
Yeah, so we started working on it in my basement as a hobby project and as we kept working on it and thinking of what we're going to do, new ideas, our friends found out, and they all wanted one. And then sort of our extended friends wanted one. Then we figured, well we’re putting in so much time, maybe we should sort of test the waters with something kind of like a Kickstarter, and then that really blew up. Then we knew, oh, now we really have to start a business.
Jake
Yeah, so it’s been a bit of a journey since then. Going from Todd’s basement, we’re now a team of 8 people, we’re spread out across the US, so we are a fully remote team. That was something we always wanted to support, Todd and I each had the personal experience of wanting to have that flexibility and being able to work from different places and choose your own working hours. But then with Covid coming along, it became even more of a necessity to do that. While that’s had its challenges, I think it's also been really great for us in that we’ve been able to hire some really talented engineers, sales and marketing folks and not have to worry to try to find or get everyone to move to one specific location. So having that capability of having a fully distributed team is great. And because everybody’s distributed, nobody’s left out. Everybody is kind of on equal footing, we do most of our work through Slack, and Google Meet, and having that be the baseline for the company has worked out really well for us.
Derek
That’s awesome. Thanks for the overview. What I love about what you guys said as well, and what I find and what we do at SEACOMP is when you have an entrepreneur or a business that was born out of a passion, I feel that creates a heightened degree of thoughtfulness and care when going through the product development journey. You’re not just developing a product then for some customer profile out there, you’re developing the product almost for yourself which is how you guys started. So, love that, thanks for that overview. So talk to us about the Atlas 2 product itself. And just in general how it improves the world we live in.
Jake
Sure, Todd, do you want to take this one?
Todd
Yeah I’ll take this one. The Atlas 2, in our opinion, is the ultimate sailing instrument. It combines state of the art L1 and L5 GNSS receiver with a very precise minute compass, has orientation sensors so we can determine the velocity and the orientation of the boat that it’s attached to with a very high degree of accuracy. It has a customizable sunlight readable display that really looks phenomenal out on the water, we have waterproof speakers and LED array that the users can configure to indicate different things to them and just give them that real time feedback that we’ve all been craving. The environment that the Atlas has to operate in is incredible hostile, saltwater, sunlight, and sailors themselves are quite abusive. So it had to be pretty rugged and waterproof and has a wireless charging system that really facilitates that. And of course the cherry on top, is the battery that has an endurance of 100 hours which for what we do is perfect.
Jake
Yeah, our customers love that. They can go, some of our customers will do a longer distance race that might last a couple days and they don’t have to worry about recharging the unit. But most of our customers will go into a multi-day regatta and don’t even think about charging it every night, they know that it’s going to last the whole event, and just having that peace of mind is awesome. I think their thing is, now the expectation within the sailing community is to have that kind of capability both in terms of having those functions integrated and having that long battery life, that’s the new bar for what people expect out of an instrument. When we started, the kind of products that were available had AA batteries that we had to change just about every day, they had displays you couldn’t read with polarized sunglasses on, which is of course is what everyone wants to wear while out on the water, and they were generally single purpose products that just did one or two things instead of having all this capability. So it’s been kind of neat to just take a step back from time to time and to reflect on how we’ve really moved the bar on what people expect out of an instrument and I think from our side, we’re just getting started, there’s a lot more to go. But it’s been really cool to see how the community has embraced that and started the recognize the value in having an instrument that has all this extra capability, be able to learn on the water, be able to collect data, be able to share with other sailors, and that’s ultimately allowing sailors to share and improve and work together even if they are not in the same geographic area, which is really cool.
Derek
Awesome. So part of the improvement of the world is allowing the people who have this passion for sailing to allow them to be even better at what they do and heighten their skill set when they’re on the water. I’m sure getting out in nature as well as I know it’s a passion of both of yours, was that also the intent? How can we create a product that helps connect technology and nature and encourages people to get out and explore what this amazing earth has to offer?
Todd
That’s certainly one of the joys of sailing, that it really is the intersection of those too things, right. It’s your ability to be outside, be with nature, and enjoy the forces of nature, and be able to observe from that. It’s sort of the fusion of technology and sailing can, even though it’s been around for a long time, it’s always advancing. And then just your personal connection with your body and with your skills to make the boat go. And all that comes together and it’s why it’s such an enjoyable sport for so many people around the world.
Jake
Yeah I think it’s a sport you can do your whole life and never master. There’s always something more to learn and there’s always something new and every time you go out it’s a little bit different because it is so dependent on the conditions, the weather, the waves, so every time you go out, even if you are in the same exact body of water you were in last time and in the same boat, it’s still a different experience. Those are all things we love about the sport. Our customers they span the range from folks that are really just doing this recreationally and maybe they just want the instrument to tell them how fast they’re going or help them improve a little bit but they’re not necessarily out there competing against other sailors all the way up to olympic programs that are training for the 2024 games and they really rely on the data that comes from the device to help gauge their performance, improve, track their performance relative to the other sailors on their team, or the data analysts that are looking at the sailor’s performance trying to figure out which training strategies are working best. I think that’s one of the challenges for us, but also one of the things that’s really neat, is that we’re working with people that span the spectrum of sailing, which we really enjoy.
Derek
So fantastic. Awesome, thanks for the overview guys. So now transitioning a little bit into the actual manufacturing and building of the device and your initial engagement with SEACOMP. Talk to us, just in general, what did you hire SEACOMP to do? What services were you looking for in a contract manufacturing partner?
Jake
So we came into this with an existing product, the Atlas 1, which in a lot of ways is very similar to the Atlas 2, but we had reached a point with that product where we knew we wanted to upgrade a couple of things, there was some new sensor technology that, in particular the L1 and L5 GNSS receivers, that we really wanted to incorporate. And then the particular things we wanted to add like the LED array, the wireless charging. So we were at a stage where we wanted to evolve that product, but we also wanted to take all the hard won lessons that we had gotten from manufacturing that product and by having out on the water with customers all over the world. So when we were looking for a manufacturing partner, we were looking for someone who both had skills and who could bring a lot to offer in terms of helping us advance the design, make it easier to manufacture, more efficient to manufacture, but also someone who was going to be able to look at what we’ve already done and take in some of those lessons as well. So those two things really brought us to SEACOMP and I think on that front it’s worked out really well to have. SEACOMP took a lot of time understanding the design of Atlas 1, learning a lot of the lessons from us that we had gotten and then carrying that forward into the Atlas 2.
Derek
Awesome, anything to add there Todd?
Todd
Yeah, it’s just been a learning curve for us, and having a partner to really help us there makes a huge difference. I’m glad we went that route instead of trying to do it ourselves. I’m thankful for the experience of building the Atlas 1, I’m also thankful we don’t do it any more.
Derek
And Jake you had touched on that, and Todd you just alluded to it as well. I know you that guys, yourselves, essentially, built the Atlas 1 products, you were actually involved in the physical assembly of those products. Can you talk about what that was like versus now using a CM partner to manage the assembly?
Jake
For the Atlas 1, primarily, so that we were able to bootstrap the company up to the scale that we are at now, we had chosen to do final assembly ourselves. So we had a bunch of suppliers that we were working with that were providing different components and sub assemblies of the product. We were actually doing the final assembly and testing of the product ourselves. I can’t say I’d recommend that route, but I also know that we wouldn’t be where we are today if we hadn’t been able to make that happen, just because it was to scale the company up. I think we learned a tremendous amount about what goes into building a product and we have a much greater appreciation for the work that happens at SEACOMP, having been through that process ourselves. Having done that with the Atlas 1, made working with SEACOMP, designing the Atlas 2, working through the manufacturing process, I think that made that go a lot smoother, and we got to a good result a lot quicker than if we hadn’t had that experience. So, I’m glad we don’t do it anymore, it’s been really nice to be able to shift our focus to other aspects of the business but I’m also glad we have that experience under our belts.
Todd
There’s other challenges too, with the current events, the challenges of the supply chain, and navigating that without a partner who has more leverage to do so, would have been really difficult. So it’s a lot of variables and I’m glad where we are at now.
Derek
Absolutely, and when we first met, that appreciation for the manufacturing process was evident because you guys had gone through building the Atlas 1 by yourselves. It probably gave you some good context in terms of what is most important for the manufacturing partner we’re going to select as well as, what should we be concerned about, or what are we most worried about of now relinquishing some of that control in assembly to a separate partner. Can you speak to that as part of the selection process, what did you need, what were you worried about?
Jake
I think there’s a few things that are specific to the Atlas 2 and the environment it goes into and then just some broader factors that are evident across the electronics market today. To the Atlas 2, as Todd mentioned earlier today, the environment it goes into is incredibly harsh for electronics. These devices are out on boats, in many times, in saltwater, literally getting blasted, waves are hitting them, sailors are running into them. It’s a rough, rough environment to put a piece of electronics in. And it’s not like it goes out there once, and its job is done. It goes out day after day after day and people expect these devices to last for years. So, knowing those environmental requirements means that there is a lot of pressure on various aspects of the design in terms of waterproofing, in terms of UV resistance, in terms of making sure the display is both rugged but also incredibly easy to read in the sun, there’s a lot that goes into that. We addressed a lot of that on the design side, but many of those things also have to be addressed and validated during the manufacturing process. So making sure the devices are sealed for example, and will last for years in this harsh environment is something that a lot of parts during the manufacturing process that have to be done very carefully and done with a high degree of reliability to achieve that. So that was one of the things we were looking for in a manufacturing partner, someone who had the process control necessary to do that, and the understanding of the products that go into that kind of environment. As we talked to different manufacturing partners, we were asking a lot of questions about ‘tell us what other products you’ve built that have gone into harsh environments’ ‘tell us about what other products you’ve built that have complicated manufacturing requirements’. So that’s one of the areas that we looked at. Another area is the precision of the measurements that the Atlas 2 has to make to deliver the data that it does to the sailor, requires a pretty extensive calibration process. And that’s something we had developed internally and had confidence in our own ability to execute, but taking that process that we had developed, transferring it to a manufacturing partner, and having it be something that they could set up in a repeatable way was an area where we had a lot of concerns about. We got there with SEACOMP, but it definitely took some work on both sides to make that happen. But in the end, I’m thrilled with the results that we’re getting. The Atlas 2 is the best compass you can buy for a sailboat, it is that accurate. And that comes back to the calibration process that we’ve developed with SEACOMP. So those are kind of the areas specific to the Atlas 2. And as Todd mentioned, as far as the bigger picture, it’s just an incredibly difficult time in the electronics market, lead times keep going up and up and up. As much success as we have had, we’re still a small company within the electronics market so we don’t have the market share to command delivery of components in the way that you might have if you were a larger company. So, that was the other side of this, was finding a manufacturing partner that had the experience and the ability to work with their suppliers to help make sure we got the components that we needed and got them delivered on time was a big piece of this as well. Those were all challenges that we looked at and evaluated different potential partners on.
Derek
Awesome, Todd, anything else at that point?
Todd
The only thing to add would be, is the ability to scale is something new for us, and something now we’re capable of because of SEACOMP. Before, we just couldn’t really build fast enough. And it caused a lot of problems for our business. So now, to know that we can produce in really whatever volume is necessary, that is really encouraging for us and for our business.
Derek
Awesome, thanks guys. Yeah, the point that stuck out to me when you were talking, Jake, especially was the collaboration piece of it. You had already developed certain test processes, calibration processes, and you needed to ensure that the partner was going to implement those so that your device could perform like it was intended to do. Not only that, that it could perform in an environment that is very very rugged and has to withstand the elements. So, I know that in the early stages of the partnership, collaboration was a big piece of what was important to you and what‘s obviously important to us as a manufacturing partner. We both need to achieve that spec and have the product come out and do what it’s intended to do to achieve mutual success, it’s important to us. So, love that. We’ve been working together now for about a year and half or so, give or take, and it’s a long journey to get through product development into manufacturing, there are a lot of challenges that you have to overcome. So just, in all candor, working with SEACOMP, what’s worked really well and what could be improved moving forward?
Jake
I think, you know you go back to the beginning, one of the things that I really appreciated, and I think has paid dividends over the whole program was the work that SEACOMP did to understand the Atlas 1 product. Even though we were not proposing that you build the Atlas 1 as it was, we were already planning to evolve that into a new design, the work that went on to understand that, understand the lessons we had learned, to understand what worked well, what hadn’t, I think really carried forward and helped with the development and the design of the Atlas 2 and allowed SEACOMP to give us great insight and advice and suggestions on places where we could tweak or improve the design either to make it more reliable, or easier to manufacture, easier to test, and I think that really helped set us up for success on the front end, was coming in with that understanding. And then, you know, Derek as you alluded to, the collaboration has been really important but also really challenging in the current environment, you know, under normal circumstances, pre-Covid, we would have gone to the factory and been on site for some of the test builds or the early manufacturing runs, and work hand in hand to address a problem that might have come up or an issue with testing, and we haven’t been able to do that because it’s not possible for us to travel right now. We simply cannot even get into the country let alone the factory due to the Covid restrictions. So, that’s been a learning curve on both sides, for us and for SEACOMP, figuring out how do we work together across a huge time zone difference, language differences, when we can’t be on site, and I’m really happy with how that’s turned out. I think now that we’ve kind of established a way to work together, and a way for the factory to really quickly and easily ask us questions, and for us to respond quickly when something does come up, I think that’s ultimately a really positive step, because it lowers the barrier for the factory when they do need some help or some input from us, now we’ve got a great way to communicate and share what’s going on. Whereas before, maybe that would have been a little more difficult because the expectation was that we had to be on site to look at something like that. So that’s been a challenge, but one that we just had to navigate in the current environment. But overall, really happy with where we ended up on the Atlas 2, the work that went into the calibration process, there’s a lot of back and forth on that. Even something as simple as finding the right place within the factory to do that work where we would not have any other interference coming from other pieces of equipment nearby. The factory’s been great, SEACOMP’s been great, at helping us navigate that. And be willing to try something because we couldn’t be there to try it. So they had to do some experimentation on our behalf. So I’ve been super thrilled with that and I think we’ve gotten to a really good place in the end.
Derek
Yeah Jake, I think that’s a great point that you made. It is really an unprecedented time in that regard where when we would be in those pre-production units ramping toward manufacturing, that is usually when the customer comes, is on-site working with SEACOMP production engineering, dialing in the final assembly items so that we can have a successful launch, and that all had to be done virtually, which like you said, had some challenges but we’re able to get through it to where we are today. So, really appreciate that feedback. Todd, anything from your side?
Todd
No, I thought Jake covered it well.
Derek
Awesome, well I think that wraps up our discussion with regard to Vakaros, and SEACOMP, I really appreciate your time. Before we go, if one of you could let our viewers know where they can learn more about Vakaros and the Atlas 2 product?
Todd
Sure, just go to our website, vakaros.com, and there you can learn all about our product and what it’s used for, and follow our social media channels to see our customers having a great time on the water using it.
Derek
Very cool. So with that, Jake and Todd, thank you so much for your time today. And for our viewers, and especially those viewers who have a love for sailing, check out the Vakaros website, check out their social, learn more about their Atlas 2 product, it’s incredible. We’ll see you next time.
